Subject: Meeting Report -- AIW Working Session on SNMP MIBs for SNA

From: "Michael O. Allen (919-254-4442)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 16:49:45 EDT

The meeting report for the AIW session is attached below.

Regards,
Mike Allen

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MEETING REPORT -- AIW WORKSHOP D14B

Working Session on SNMP MIBs for APPN and APPC

TIME        Day 1, 2:00-3:15

MODERATOR   Mike Allen

NOTE TAKER  Marcia Peters

ATTENDANCE  43 (attendee list at the end of report)

SESSION ABSTRACT

          There is a large community of interest in developing
          industry-standard SNMP MIBs for the management of SNA
          resources.  Several companies in the AIW (including IBM) are
          active members of the SNA NAU Services MIB (snanau) working
          group of IETF that has recently begun the task of developing
          these industry-standard MIBs.

          The initial goals of the IETF working group are MIBs for PU
          2 and T2.1 LEN nodes, and LU types 1,2,3, with APPC and APPN
          MIBs to follow sometime later.  This AIW working session
          will explore how interested members of the workshop can
          enhance the efforts of the IETF working group.  Our hope is
          that by working together both in the AIW and in the IETF, we
          expedite the development and acceptance of industry-standard
          MIBs for APPN and APPC.

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INTRODUCTION

Mike Allen introduced the session by describing the problem -- IBM
wants the IETF working groups on SNA MIBs to succeed and we are taking
part in that effort, but the working groups have, for practical
reasons, been forced to stage their effort:  legacy SNA resources (PU
2.0, LU 1,2,3) first; APPC and APPN later.  A separate working group
was established to reach consensus on DLC-level MIBs for SNA.  IBM
(and most of the companies at AIW) want standardized MIBs for APPC and
APPC as soon as possible (many of us already have proprietary MIB
modules).  Can we use the AIW as a supplement to the IETF working
groups, perhaps to reach consensus on APPC and APPN MIB standards in
parallel, while working under the umbrella of the SNA NAU MIB working
group?

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REPORT FROM IETF WORKING GROUP ON SNA NAU MIBS

Mike introduced Zbigniew Kielczewski, Eicon Technologies, who is chair
of the SNA NAU MIB working group in IETF.  Zbigniew summarized the
current status of his working group.  The scope of SNA management is
so large that they had to divide it into achieveable steps:  PU 2.0,
LU 1,2,3 first, with APPC and APPN to follow later.  Important that
the working group is able to show progress by getting something done
in a timely way.  IETF charter for the working group requires that it
keep scope manageable.  The authors in the group are working on a
first draft document that will be distributed via E-mail in the next
week or so.  This draft is based largely on contributions from Novell,
DEC, and Eicon.  The draft will be discussed at the next IETF, July
12-16 in Amsterdam.  He expects that they will have a draft standard
by the end of 1993.  They may then ask that IESG extend the charter to
include APPC.

Q -- What about the data link MIB working group?  Will the two groups
     coordinate so that the MIBs work together?

A -- The two WGs will coordinate to be sure that MIBs work together.
     Shannon Nix from NetLink, who is part of the DLC MIB WG, also
     responded.  The group has 7 MIB modules contributed by 4 vendors
     and is working now on integration into a common proposal.  They
     will schedule a review meeting when they have a draft ready.

Q -- Is there a mailing list available?  Yes.  Send a note to these
     addresses to get on the lists:

       [email-masked]
       [email-masked]

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WHAT ARE MAIN CONCERNS OF VENDORS WITH REGARD TO APPN MIBS?

Mike Allen lead this discussion.  IBM needs MIBs for APPC and APPN to
support our products, plus we need to add new functions to existing
MIBs.  How can we line up with industry standard MIBs?  How can we
support both standard and proprietary MIBs?  We want to borrow from
standard and align with it as much as possible as it emerges so that
it is easier to support it fully when it becomes available.

Q -- concern that the IBM APPN MIB was not being considered in the
     draft that the WG was creating.  Vendors must support both, and
     are worried that the two will not mesh well.

A -- We want to be aligned as much as possible with standard, don't
     know yet exactly how to accomplish that.  We will look very
     closely at SNA NAU draft to better understand how to make
     alignment easier.  By the way, the APPN Node MIB contains both
     end node and network node in the same module, so it appears big.
     If we had separated out the network node unique parts into a
     separate module, the common end node information would be much
     smaller.

     Missing from our current MIB modules:  LUs and session endpoints.
     We would like to be able to use or borrow from emerging NAU MIB
     as we add these function.   Will be looking for ways to do that.

     No vendor has complete coverage yet.

Q -- Emphasized need for IBM and NAU WG to work together to make life
     easier for implementers.  For example, if both MIBs have the same
     variable, PLEASE make it have exactly the same format in both
     places.

A -- We will look closely at NAU draft when it comes out.  We share
     same concern.

Q -- Most vendors have a single product that is both a PU 2.0 as well
     as PU 2.1 or APPN end node.  Having separate MIBs for each of
     those roles is a problem.  May have to implement IBM proprietary
     MIB as well as industry standard because of dates.  That will
     create migration problems.

A -- Agree.  We will work with NAU WG to minimize migration and
     coexistence problems between emerging MIB and our current APPN
     MIB.

Q -- Need to be able to handle products with multiple PU 2.0 nodes in
     same box.  Maybe have a table of PUs in the MIB.

A -- Discussion.  Each PU2 is really a separate SNA node (separate
     address space).

Q -- Is the draft RFC given out at the meeting the same as the 6611
     network node MIB?

A -- Yes, same MIB module, but formatted and easier to read in RFC
     style.

Q -- What about DLSw MIB?

A -- That will be handled by DLSw SIG.  So far as SNA node is
     concerned, DLSw is a DLC.

Q -- Industry-standard MIB needs to have a place to keep information
     about product versions and release levels.  For SNA gateways,
     that should include information about both the server (the GW) as
     well as the clients.

A -- Discussion.  This information useful for problem determination,
     not just inventory.  Should be at least as good as the product
     set ID currently in SNA/MS architecture.  Someone suggested
     looking at the Host MIB under development in IETF.

Q -- New SNA MIBs should line up well with other IETF MIBs, such as
     SDLC, HDLC, X.25.

A -- Working group will use existing standards as much as possible
     (Zbigniew Kielczewski).

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RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN AIW ACTIVITIES AND IETF

There was a discussion about how AIW could best work with the current
IETF working groups.  The consensus was that there was currently no
requirement for a SIG at AIW, but all the interested parties would
like to have meetings on the subject of SNA MIBs at the AIW.  They
would like to get reports back on the IETF working groups.  IBM and
Eicon will discuss with IETF the feasibility of a separate charter for
APPN MIB work.  A mailing list will be established for general
discussion of SNMP management of SNA:

  [email-masked]
  [email-masked] - use this to sign up

Files will be store on the repository under the directory

       aiw/snasnmp

A report on the meeting will be posted to the mailing list.

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ATTENDEE LIST

Name                 Company            e-mail
---------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew Gerlach      A.C.C.             [email-masked]
Steve Berl           Apple Computer     [email-masked]
Issac Nosatzki       ANR                fax: 972-4-894212
Dave Schwee          BMC                none
Jim Cobban           BNR                [email-masked]
Paul Diamond         Cabletron          [email-masked].
Wayne Clark          Cisco              [email-masked]
Meng Lyu             Cisco Systems      [email-masked]
Anson Chen           Cisco Systems      [email-masked]
Richard Livingston   Cisco Systems      [email-masked]
John Lazar           Data Connection    [email-masked]
John Palombo         Data Connection    [email-masked]
Simon Graham         DEC                [email-masked]
Zbigniew Kielczewshi Eicon Technology   [email-masked]
Steve Randesi        GEN2 Ventures      -
David Finnie         Insession          [email-masked]
Bill Mckenzie        IBM                mckenzie@
Kim Murray           IBM                [email-masked]
Robin Cheng          IBM                [email-masked]
Mike Allen           IBM                [email-masked]
John H. Shin         IBM CM/2, AIX/SS   [email-masked]
Larry Plank          IBM Rochester      [email-masked]
Robin Layland        Layland Consulting mcimail:[email-masked]
Pari Sabhikhi        Memorex Telex            .SABHIKHI
Mike Shah            Memorex Telex            .SHAH
Shannon Nix          Netlink            [email-masked]
Gary Palmer          Northern Telecom
Paul Gacek           Novell             [email-masked]
Stan Ratliff         OpenConnect        [email-masked]
Ed Stern             Proteon, Inc.      [email-masked]
Bill Donovan         Proteon, Inc       [email-masked]
Elazar Ronen         Radlinx Ltd.       [email-masked]
Alan K. Bartky       Sync Research      [email-masked]
David G. Brenner     SynOptics          [email-masked]
Lisa Bobbit          SynOptics          [email-masked]
Jamie Sciarrino      SynOptics          [email-masked]
Dan Simone           SynOptics Comm.    [email-masked]
Scott Banick         Wellfleet          [email-masked]
Frank Pereira        3Com               [email-masked]